From contact at hizantennas.com Wed Jan 1 14:51:53 2014 From: contact at hizantennas.com (contact) Date: Wed, 1 Jan 2014 11:51:53 -0800 Subject: [Hi-zreceivingarraydiscussions] HAPPY NEW YEAR -- 2014 Message-ID: <001801cf072a$f027e140$d077a3c0$@com> To ALL, A very Happy New Year to ALL. Thank you for making this the best year ever for Hi-Z Antennas. 73 DE Lee (Engineering), Travis (Lead Tech), Jeff (Technician) and The Gunny (aka Dick KO7N, Marketing and Product Mgmt) From k3lr at k3lr.com Wed Jan 1 17:12:20 2014 From: k3lr at k3lr.com (Tim Duffy) Date: Wed, 1 Jan 2014 17:12:20 -0500 Subject: [Hi-zreceivingarraydiscussions] HAPPY NEW YEAR -- 2014 In-Reply-To: <001801cf072a$f027e140$d077a3c0$@com> References: <001801cf072a$f027e140$d077a3c0$@com> Message-ID: <09A335D27C15468A888663D6C32C1CAD@laptop> The HI-Z team of Lee, Gunny, Travis and Jeff are all just plain outstanding! I can tell you as a long time user of the dual band HI-Z 8 circle - I am very pleased. After almost 30 years at this QTH - now for the first time - the Beverages are GONE! And we are hearing better than ever! Next week I will install another HI-Z 4 square 500 feet away from the HI-Z 8 broadside to Europe, so both the 8 circle and the new 4 square will feed the DXE NCC-1 to allow dynamic phasing of the two HI-Z arrays to get even better performance. The model shows the combination RDF exceeds 15 dB. We'll have the new system ready for testing in a few weeks before the CQ160 CW contest. And it will feed the K3LR 160 meter Skimmer SDR so you can see how well it hears by logging into the reverse beacon network. By the way - DX Engineering is VERY PROUD to represent and sell the HI-Z quality line of products. 2014 will bring even more great things from HI-Z and DXE! Stay tuned 73 and HNY, Tim K3LR Long time happy HI-Z user and also a member of the DX Engineering Team -----Original Message----- From: Hi-zreceivingarraydiscussions [mailto:hi-zreceivingarraydiscussions-bounces at hizantennas.com] On Behalf Of contact Sent: Wednesday, January 01, 2014 2:52 PM To: 'Hi-Z Receiving Array Discussions' Subject: [Hi-zreceivingarraydiscussions] HAPPY NEW YEAR -- 2014 To ALL, A very Happy New Year to ALL. Thank you for making this the best year ever for Hi-Z Antennas. 73 DE Lee (Engineering), Travis (Lead Tech), Jeff (Technician) and The Gunny (aka Dick KO7N, Marketing and Product Mgmt) _______________________________________________ Hi-zreceivingarraydiscussions mailing list Hi-zreceivingarraydiscussions at hizantennas.com http://mail.hizantennas.com/mailman/listinfo/hi-zreceivingarraydiscussions_h izantennas.com From cqkg8co at yahoo.com Sat Jan 18 15:19:36 2014 From: cqkg8co at yahoo.com (Brian Sarkisian, KG8CO) Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2014 12:19:36 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Hi-zreceivingarraydiscussions] PNP and Phase Controller Connection Question Message-ID: <1390076376.23456.YahooMailNeo@web141102.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> In the process of hooking up the Hi-Z 4-8 8 Circle Array. I see there is a ground connection on the PNP and on the Phase controller unit. ?Does these units need to be connected together at the ground connections using a jumper or will the coax connections grounds suffice? I read through the instruction manual and I didn't notice any reference to these ground lugs, or I just missed it. Thank you Brian, KG8CO From k7tjr at msn.com Sat Jan 18 15:24:02 2014 From: k7tjr at msn.com (Lee K7TJR) Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2014 12:24:02 -0800 Subject: [Hi-zreceivingarraydiscussions] PNP and Phase Controller Connection Question In-Reply-To: <1390076376.23456.YahooMailNeo@web141102.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <1390076376.23456.YahooMailNeo@web141102.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: The Coax shields will suffice for connection to the PNP from the controller. Lee K7TJR -----Original Message----- From: Hi-zreceivingarraydiscussions [mailto:hi-zreceivingarraydiscussions-bounces at hizantennas.com] On Behalf Of Brian Sarkisian, KG8CO Sent: Saturday, January 18, 2014 12:20 PM To: Hi-zreceivingarraydiscussions at hizantennas.com Subject: [Hi-zreceivingarraydiscussions] PNP and Phase Controller Connection Question In the process of hooking up the Hi-Z 4-8 8 Circle Array. I see there is a ground connection on the PNP and on the Phase controller unit. ?Does these units need to be connected together at the ground connections using a jumper or will the coax connections grounds suffice? I read through the instruction manual and I didn't notice any reference to these ground lugs, or I just missed it. Thank you Brian, KG8CO _______________________________________________ Hi-zreceivingarraydiscussions mailing list Hi-zreceivingarraydiscussions at hizantennas.com http://mail.hizantennas.com/mailman/listinfo/hi-zreceivingarraydiscussions_h izantennas.com From cqkg8co at yahoo.com Sat Jan 18 15:25:06 2014 From: cqkg8co at yahoo.com (Brian Sarkisian, KG8CO) Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2014 12:25:06 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Hi-zreceivingarraydiscussions] PNP and Phase Controller Connection Question In-Reply-To: References: <1390076376.23456.YahooMailNeo@web141102.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1390076706.60389.YahooMailNeo@web141102.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Thank you Brian, KG8CO ________________________________ From: Lee K7TJR To: "'Brian Sarkisian, KG8CO'" ; 'Hi-Z Receiving Array Discussions' Sent: Saturday, January 18, 2014 3:24 PM Subject: Re: [Hi-zreceivingarraydiscussions] PNP and Phase Controller Connection Question The Coax shields will suffice for connection to the PNP from the controller. Lee? K7TJR -----Original Message----- From: Hi-zreceivingarraydiscussions [mailto:hi-zreceivingarraydiscussions-bounces at hizantennas.com] On Behalf Of Brian Sarkisian, KG8CO Sent: Saturday, January 18, 2014 12:20 PM To: Hi-zreceivingarraydiscussions at hizantennas.com Subject: [Hi-zreceivingarraydiscussions] PNP and Phase Controller Connection Question In the process of hooking up the Hi-Z 4-8 8 Circle Array. I see there is a ground connection on the PNP and on the Phase controller unit. ?Does these units need to be connected together at the ground connections using a jumper or will the coax connections grounds suffice? I read through the instruction manual and I didn't notice any reference to these ground lugs, or I just missed it. Thank you Brian, KG8CO _______________________________________________ Hi-zreceivingarraydiscussions mailing list Hi-zreceivingarraydiscussions at hizantennas.com http://mail.hizantennas.com/mailman/listinfo/hi-zreceivingarraydiscussions_h izantennas.com _______________________________________________ Hi-zreceivingarraydiscussions mailing list Hi-zreceivingarraydiscussions at hizantennas.com http://mail.hizantennas.com/mailman/listinfo/hi-zreceivingarraydiscussions_hizantennas.com From cqkg8co at yahoo.com Fri Jan 24 16:15:04 2014 From: cqkg8co at yahoo.com (Brian Sarkisian, KG8CO) Date: Fri, 24 Jan 2014 13:15:04 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Hi-zreceivingarraydiscussions] Power Over Coax Issue Message-ID: <1390598104.31733.YahooMailNeo@web141106.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> I just finished up the 8 Circle Array this afternoon, and it decided not to work. After making sure my wiring was correct, I checked the voltage out at the RX array. When I check it before (without the remote receiver and the phasing units connected, the volt meter said I was getting 13.8 volts at the RX array so I thought I was in business. Once I connect the remote receiver and phasing units, I see that the voltage drops to about 7 volts. The feed line is about 1100 feet +/-?of RG-6 coax Should I be seeing this sort of voltage drop, and if so what type of input voltage can the power over coax injectors can handle? Thank you Brian, KG8CO From ve6jy.1 at gmail.com Fri Jan 24 16:20:27 2014 From: ve6jy.1 at gmail.com (Don Moman VE6JY) Date: Fri, 24 Jan 2014 21:20:27 +0000 Subject: [Hi-zreceivingarraydiscussions] Power Over Coax Issue In-Reply-To: <1390598104.31733.YahooMailNeo@web141106.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <1390598104.31733.YahooMailNeo@web141106.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: That voltage drop is normal. I have to use close to 30 v in the shack for a similar length run. The surge device (MOV?) in the control unit cannot handle this voltage without releasing a smell..... 73 Don VE6JY On Fri, Jan 24, 2014 at 9:15 PM, Brian Sarkisian, KG8CO wrote: > I just finished up the 8 Circle Array this afternoon, and it decided not > to work. > > After making sure my wiring was correct, I checked the voltage out at the > RX array. > > When I check it before (without the remote receiver and the phasing units > connected, the volt meter > said I was getting 13.8 volts at the RX array so I thought I was in > business. > > Once I connect the remote receiver and phasing units, I see that the > voltage drops to about 7 volts. > > The feed line is about 1100 feet +/- of RG-6 coax > > Should I be seeing this sort of voltage drop, and if so what type of input > voltage can the power over > coax injectors can handle? > > Thank you > > > Brian, KG8CO > _______________________________________________ > Hi-zreceivingarraydiscussions mailing list > Hi-zreceivingarraydiscussions at hizantennas.com > > http://mail.hizantennas.com/mailman/listinfo/hi-zreceivingarraydiscussions_hizantennas.com > From k7tjr at msn.com Fri Jan 24 17:20:08 2014 From: k7tjr at msn.com (Lee K7TJR) Date: Fri, 24 Jan 2014 14:20:08 -0800 Subject: [Hi-zreceivingarraydiscussions] Power Over Coax Issue In-Reply-To: <1390598104.31733.YahooMailNeo@web141106.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <1390598104.31733.YahooMailNeo@web141106.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Brian, the RG-6 resistance is about 33 ohms per 1000 feet. We have an app note on this but I cant locate it right now. I am waiting for Dick to call me back to get it for you. You can supply the voltage to the power injector separate from the shack switch and then apply higher voltage than through the Shack switch. Only problem is then you cannot turn off the array with the shack switch power switch. Going beyond 20 Volts through the shack switch may over current the LEDs. The injectors can handle 25 to 30 volts easily. Our app note shows this and I thought it was on our web but I don?t see it there. As soon as I can I will send you a copy and put it up on the application notes. Lee K7TJR -----Original Message----- From: Hi-zreceivingarraydiscussions [mailto:hi-zreceivingarraydiscussions-bounces at hizantennas.com] On Behalf Of Brian Sarkisian, KG8CO Sent: Friday, January 24, 2014 1:15 PM To: Hi-zreceivingarraydiscussions at hizantennas.com Subject: [Hi-zreceivingarraydiscussions] Power Over Coax Issue I just finished up the 8 Circle Array this afternoon, and it decided not to work. After making sure my wiring was correct, I checked the voltage out at the RX array. When I check it before (without the remote receiver and the phasing units connected, the volt meter said I was getting 13.8 volts at the RX array so I thought I was in business. Once I connect the remote receiver and phasing units, I see that the voltage drops to about 7 volts. The feed line is about 1100 feet +/-?of RG-6 coax Should I be seeing this sort of voltage drop, and if so what type of input voltage can the power over coax injectors can handle? Thank you Brian, KG8CO _______________________________________________ Hi-zreceivingarraydiscussions mailing list Hi-zreceivingarraydiscussions at hizantennas.com http://mail.hizantennas.com/mailman/listinfo/hi-zreceivingarraydiscussions_h izantennas.com From cqkg8co at yahoo.com Fri Jan 24 17:44:09 2014 From: cqkg8co at yahoo.com (Brian Sarkisian, KG8CO) Date: Fri, 24 Jan 2014 14:44:09 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Hi-zreceivingarraydiscussions] Power Over Coax Issue In-Reply-To: References: <1390598104.31733.YahooMailNeo@web141106.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1390603449.40427.YahooMailNeo@web141101.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Hello Lee... And thank you for the reply.? I understand what you are saying, so don't worry about the application notes.? I will apply a higher voltage to the injectors tomorrow. Brian, KG8CO ________________________________ From: Lee K7TJR To: "'Brian Sarkisian, KG8CO'" ; 'Hi-Z Receiving Array Discussions' Sent: Friday, January 24, 2014 5:20 PM Subject: Re: [Hi-zreceivingarraydiscussions] Power Over Coax Issue Brian, the RG-6? resistance is about 33 ohms per 1000 feet. We have an app note on this but I cant locate it right now. I am waiting for Dick to call me back to get it for you. ? You can supply the voltage to the power injector separate from the shack switch and then apply higher voltage than through the Shack switch. Only problem is then you cannot turn off the array with the shack switch power switch. Going beyond 20 Volts through the shack switch may over current the LEDs. The injectors can handle 25 to 30 volts easily. Our app note shows this and I thought it was on our web but I don?t see it there. As soon as I can I will send you a copy and put it up on the application notes. Lee? K7TJR -----Original Message----- From: Hi-zreceivingarraydiscussions [mailto:hi-zreceivingarraydiscussions-bounces at hizantennas.com] On Behalf Of Brian Sarkisian, KG8CO Sent: Friday, January 24, 2014 1:15 PM To: Hi-zreceivingarraydiscussions at hizantennas.com Subject: [Hi-zreceivingarraydiscussions] Power Over Coax Issue I just finished up the 8 Circle Array this afternoon, and it decided not to work. After making sure my wiring was correct, I checked the voltage out at the RX array. When I check it before (without the remote receiver and the phasing units connected, the volt meter said I was getting 13.8 volts at the RX array so I thought I was in business. Once I connect the remote receiver and phasing units, I see that the voltage drops to about 7 volts. The feed line is about 1100 feet +/-?of RG-6 coax Should I be seeing this sort of voltage drop, and if so what type of input voltage can the power over coax injectors can handle? Thank you Brian, KG8CO _______________________________________________ Hi-zreceivingarraydiscussions mailing list Hi-zreceivingarraydiscussions at hizantennas.com http://mail.hizantennas.com/mailman/listinfo/hi-zreceivingarraydiscussions_h izantennas.com _______________________________________________ Hi-zreceivingarraydiscussions mailing list Hi-zreceivingarraydiscussions at hizantennas.com http://mail.hizantennas.com/mailman/listinfo/hi-zreceivingarraydiscussions_hizantennas.com From K4PI at BELLSOUTH.NET Sat Jan 25 15:53:46 2014 From: K4PI at BELLSOUTH.NET (Mike Greenway) Date: Sat, 25 Jan 2014 15:53:46 -0500 Subject: [Hi-zreceivingarraydiscussions] VOLTAGE AT THE ANTENNA Message-ID: <430B4BC200914E49B11DBDAAFDEFD206@SHACK> Probably normal as the others were saying. I have a 500 ft feedline and have about a 4 volt drop with # 18 sprinkler wire lines. I run my supply at 17 V at the shack and have 13.8 with the load at the phasing boxes. Voltage at all the verticals runs around 4.8 V. Good luck and hope you have it going soon. ARRL CW DX test coming up soon. 73 Mike K4PI From cqkg8co at yahoo.com Thu Jan 30 14:28:01 2014 From: cqkg8co at yahoo.com (Brian Sarkisian, KG8CO) Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2014 11:28:01 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Hi-zreceivingarraydiscussions] Array Voltage Question Message-ID: <1391110081.57083.YahooMailNeo@web141102.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> The new 30V 3 amp is now connected to the array via the power injectors. By the time I get everything connected at the Array end, I am seeing 12.7 volts. The array is working, however I thought I had read some where that that array needs a minimum of 13.8 volts to work at its peak performance. What are your thoughts? Thank you Brian, KG8CO From k7tjr at msn.com Thu Jan 30 15:18:20 2014 From: k7tjr at msn.com (Lee K7TJR) Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2014 12:18:20 -0800 Subject: [Hi-zreceivingarraydiscussions] Array Voltage Question In-Reply-To: <1391110081.57083.YahooMailNeo@web141102.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <1391110081.57083.YahooMailNeo@web141102.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Brian, the system was designed to give its best IMD performance at 13.8VDC. It will work fine at lower levels. If you are not hearing any BC station intermod I would not worry about operating the system at 12.7VDC Lee K7TJR -----Original Message----- From: Hi-zreceivingarraydiscussions [mailto:hi-zreceivingarraydiscussions-bounces at hizantennas.com] On Behalf Of Brian Sarkisian, KG8CO Sent: Thursday, January 30, 2014 11:28 AM To: HI-zreceivingarraydiscussions at hizantennas.com Subject: [Hi-zreceivingarraydiscussions] Array Voltage Question The new 30V 3 amp is now connected to the array via the power injectors. By the time I get everything connected at the Array end, I am seeing 12.7 volts. The array is working, however I thought I had read some where that that array needs a minimum of 13.8 volts to work at its peak performance. What are your thoughts? Thank you Brian, KG8CO _______________________________________________ Hi-zreceivingarraydiscussions mailing list Hi-zreceivingarraydiscussions at hizantennas.com http://mail.hizantennas.com/mailman/listinfo/hi-zreceivingarraydiscussions_h izantennas.com From CaseKE at aol.com Thu Jan 30 23:28:25 2014 From: CaseKE at aol.com (CaseKE at aol.com) Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2014 23:28:25 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Hi-zreceivingarraydiscussions] Grounding the feedline when Hi-Z is "on" Message-ID: >From Ken Case K5KC Finally, after 26 months, I turned on the Hi-Z 8-circle array (160M) this evening. My situation is a little different from most: 900 foot run from base to Hi-Z field. Using Green Heron base and remote box to select direction of Hi-Z. Running a single RG-6 coax from base to Hi-Z field; no control lines. Using a deep cycle 12+ volt battery with solar charger at the center of the Hi-Z field to power the Green Heron and the Hi-Z which are on all the time. All seems to be working well. Now, the question. I also have two sets of Beverages. I use an antenna switch to feed one or the other into the K3 as a receiving antenna, used in diversity mode. I'd like to add the Hi-Z 8-Circle coax to the switch so I can select the Hi-Z or either of the two Beverages to feed to the K3. BUT, the switch grounds every antenna not selected, so if I were to select, say, Beverage 1, then both Beverage 2 and the Hi-Z 8-Circle feedline will be shorted to ground. Is this OK or not? I know shorts in the Hi-Z lines to the amps are not allowed when the Hi-Z is on, but what about the feedline? Looking forward to your answer. 73, Ken K5KC From k7tjr at msn.com Thu Jan 30 23:35:09 2014 From: k7tjr at msn.com (Lee K7TJR) Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2014 20:35:09 -0800 Subject: [Hi-zreceivingarraydiscussions] Grounding the feedline when Hi-Z is "on" In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: At this time Ken that is not a good idea. What happens is the array picks up your TX signal and then the 75ohm preamp tries to drive the dead short with that large signal. It fries the preamp when powered up. Lee K7TJR -----Original Message----- From: Hi-zreceivingarraydiscussions [mailto:hi-zreceivingarraydiscussions-bounces at hizantennas.com] On Behalf Of CaseKE at aol.com Sent: Thursday, January 30, 2014 8:28 PM To: Hi-zreceivingarraydiscussions at hizantennas.com Subject: [Hi-zreceivingarraydiscussions] Grounding the feedline when Hi-Z is "on" >From Ken Case K5KC Finally, after 26 months, I turned on the Hi-Z 8-circle array (160M) this evening. My situation is a little different from most: 900 foot run from base to Hi-Z field. Using Green Heron base and remote box to select direction of Hi-Z. Running a single RG-6 coax from base to Hi-Z field; no control lines. Using a deep cycle 12+ volt battery with solar charger at the center of the Hi-Z field to power the Green Heron and the Hi-Z which are on all the time. All seems to be working well. Now, the question. I also have two sets of Beverages. I use an antenna switch to feed one or the other into the K3 as a receiving antenna, used in diversity mode. I'd like to add the Hi-Z 8-Circle coax to the switch so I can select the Hi-Z or either of the two Beverages to feed to the K3. BUT, the switch grounds every antenna not selected, so if I were to select, say, Beverage 1, then both Beverage 2 and the Hi-Z 8-Circle feedline will be shorted to ground. Is this OK or not? I know shorts in the Hi-Z lines to the amps are not allowed when the Hi-Z is on, but what about the feedline? Looking forward to your answer. 73, Ken K5KC _______________________________________________ Hi-zreceivingarraydiscussions mailing list Hi-zreceivingarraydiscussions at hizantennas.com http://mail.hizantennas.com/mailman/listinfo/hi-zreceivingarraydiscussions_h izantennas.com From cqkg8co at yahoo.com Fri Jan 31 07:52:23 2014 From: cqkg8co at yahoo.com (Brian Sarkisian, KG8CO) Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2014 04:52:23 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Hi-zreceivingarraydiscussions] Array Voltage Question In-Reply-To: <1391113605.40445.YahooMailNeo@web141106.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <1391110081.57083.YahooMailNeo@web141102.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <1391113605.40445.YahooMailNeo@web141106.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1391172743.10156.YahooMailNeo@web141101.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Hello Lee ... And that you for the quick e-mail reply.? Tuning up and down the band, I did notice some BCB interference. I haven't had that problem with my beverages, so I am thinking I should pickup another PS that has a higher voltage output today. Do you think I should I should also get some sort of BCB filter ? Thank you Brian, KG8CO ________________________________ From: Lee K7TJR To: "'Brian Sarkisian, KG8CO'" ; 'Hi-Z Receiving Array Discussions' Sent: Thursday, January 30, 2014 3:18 PM Subject: RE: [Hi-zreceivingarraydiscussions] Array Voltage Question Brian, the system was designed to give its best IMD performance at 13.8VDC. It will work fine at lower levels. If you are not hearing any BC station intermod I would not worry about operating the system at 12.7VDC Lee? K7TJR -----Original Message----- From: Hi-zreceivingarraydiscussions [mailto:hi-zreceivingarraydiscussions-bounces at hizantennas.com] On Behalf Of Brian Sarkisian, KG8CO Sent: Thursday, January 30, 2014 11:28 AM To: HI-zreceivingarraydiscussions at hizantennas.com Subject: [Hi-zreceivingarraydiscussions] Array Voltage Question The new 30V 3 amp is now connected to the array via the power injectors. By the time I get everything connected at the Array end, I am seeing 12.7 volts. The array is working, however I thought I had read some where that that array needs a minimum of 13.8 volts to work at its peak performance. What are your thoughts? Thank you Brian, KG8CO _______________________________________________ Hi-zreceivingarraydiscussions mailing list Hi-zreceivingarraydiscussions at hizantennas.com http://mail.hizantennas.com/mailman/listinfo/hi-zreceivingarraydiscussions_h izantennas.com